On April Fool's Day, 1988, Bruce Pavitt and Jonathan Poneman, having freshly quit their day-jobs, moved into the brand new offices for Sub Pop Records. Though Pavitt had used the name, in numerous forms, for a decade already, this day marked the birth of the "modern" Sub Pop. Over the next 20 years, Sub Pop has had its ups and downs, from defining the grunge-rock era, to shotgun corporate marriages, to shining success in the new millennium's digital era. On the eve of their 20th Anniversary Concert, Poneman shared some sage wisdoms.
Sub Pop 20 is this weekend; are you going to be tying one on, or remaining the dignified elder statesman?
“I’m going to be tying one on like the dignified elder statesman. They’re not mutually exclusive conditions.”
How does it feel now that Sub Pop is now older than most of its listeners?
“It feels old. In label terms, we’re old and grey, like a grandparent. That’s actually a good feeling.”
With your recent run of way-popular records —The Shins, Band Of Horses, Postal Service, CSS, etc— is there a whole generation who actually don’t associate Sub Pop inextricably with grunge?
“Well, the greatest change since Sub Pop’s origination is the advent of information technology. It’s much easier for younger music fans to access older music, now, via the internet. Everything is available digitally. So, we find that many of our young listeners are incredibly well-informed about the label’s earlier artists, and I associate that with the ability to rifle around on the web, learn about music. There are much greater possibilities, on the internet, for acquiring music, and acquiring a musical education.”
I read an old interview where you spoke of the Sub Pop 100 compile as an attempt to chronicle the various ‘scenes’ of America. That old ‘tribal’ feeling —of cities being isolated, and bands going on tour being adventurers tripping into the unknown— is pretty much completely dead, right?
“It’s interesting that you say that, because, whilst I think that’s definitely the case at the moment, but, of all things, I think what’s happening with the fuel crisis in North America is actually going to hurtle the global music scene back to its tribal roots. In North America, there’ll be an inability, due to cost-restrictions, for bands to be able to drive all over the country, as they’ve traditionally been able to do. In Seattle, the emergence of the music scene here had a lot to do with touring bands not being able to justify the expense of driving up here. Because of that, we basically had to entertain ourselves, and, hence, a healthy music scene grew.”
Given it was born in isolation, how dramatic was the change when the local scene exploded unto the world, and Seattle became the almighty grunge-rock brand-name?
“There was enough savviness here, I think, that a lot of people here, through record-stores and fanzines, knew enough about what was happening throughout the country and throughout the world, not to get swept up in that. These days, that ability is strengthened. But what’s most important to the rock experience, the maximum rock-n-roll experience, is live performance, and the communal engagement. Nobody likes to rock all by one’s self; there’s something masturbatory about it. Nothing against masturbation, of course, it’s great. But when one’s rocking, one likes to do it with other people. At least that’s what I’ve found.”
Is there a particular record, over your vast catalogue, that you’re most proud of releasing?
“It’s hard to choose which record I’m most proud of, because each one has a different story, and for every mood there’s a different record. I could say [Mudhoney's] Superfuzz Bigmuff right now, but then I’d say [Fleet Foxes'] Fleet Foxes five minutes from now.”
What’s the worst record Sub Pop ever put out?
“[Laughs wickedly]. What I just said would probably be applicable to that situation as well. If a band is being particularly ornery, and not cooperative, then I can start to hear those qualities in their music, and start to have dark thoughts about their artistry. Or lack thereof.”
What about the Everett True (aka The Legend) single?
“I knew you were heading there. Knowing Jerry well, and that he could easily read this, I will say that Donuts is one of my five favourite songs that we’ve ever put out.”
Where does Hardly Art fit into the Sub Pop lineage?
“Well, after 20 years of having done Sub Pop, even though we had worked with so many different bands, there’s still an idea of what Sub Pop is. Nobody knows what Hardly Art is. So, it’s an ability to create a whole new community, a whole new vibe, a whole new thing, and use the business lessons we’ve learned from Sub Pop.”
How salty were the lessons you learnt in the whole Warner crossover era?
“A lot of the lessons I learnt being in business with Warner had very little to do with Warner. They had a lot to do with how we went about fulfilling what we thought our agenda was at the time. We were working with resources that were in no way major-label resources, but we were trying to work within the structures of this major-label system. We thought we could have the intimacy of an independent with the marketing muscle of a major, but that was all so much bullshit. What happened was, our company’s essential mission —being staunch advocates of great music— just got thrown out of the window. There was so much money wasted, so much egoism, so much hubris and stupidity. And, of course, once we were ‘failures’, and resigned ourselves to just trying to turn other people onto music that we cared so much about, then, of course, there was success.”
So, the perception of the mid-’90s and late-’90s as the Sub Pop ‘slump’ is accurate? Did it actually feel like that at the time?
“Yeah, it did. It felt very incoherent to me. There was too much politics, too much money, a lot of distraction away from the simple attention of working with great music by great men. It’s really a cliché narrative: innocence, innocence lost, innocence regained. That time was definitely the part when the bloom came off the rose, to employ another cliché. But, so many of us who work there care about the label, and its legacy, and many, myself included, don’t really know what we’d do if we weren’t doing this. This is my life.”
